Re: Soy - Share The Wealth

Re: Soy

Jonathan,

I think this is getting too polarized. The case for soy is hardly balanced when the contrary data is dismissed or not even accessed. It appears that criticisms are being made without actually reading the book in question. Shooting the messenger is hardly productive. I think Kaayla has pretty much summed it up and the discussion is getting moot.

"At 02:33 PM 06/07/2005, Kaayla Daniel wrote:

Dear Chris, Thanks for sharing but I'm choosing not to respond to Jonathan. He seems to have made up his mind. My book presents my arguments in depth and if he's unwilling to read it, well, I tried. The case for raw milk is best made in Ron Schmid's book "The Untold Story of Real Milk" and at www.realmilk.com. Neither the Weston Price Foundation nor I have ever recommended supermarket milk, factory farming or highly processed,fractionated products such as casein or taken -- or even been offered -- any $ from the dairy industry. Kaayla"

There has never been anything against soy particularly "fermented soy" if it is consumed the traditional way which is the position Kaayla and the Weston Price Foundation has taken all along. But then whose is listening??

John Robins response is itself full of "half truths"....

There are many reasons for the longevity of the people of Okinawa and elsewhere. Just one that comes to mind is the high Iodine and other mineral intake from sea foods and there could be several other factors. Also they consume Soy in traditional ways. What about the longevity of the Hunza who definitely do not consume Soy? The arguments he makes sound so biassed and remind of the whole bull on Saturated fats where researchers only pick those countries that suit their agenda/bias etc. overlooking the high saturated fat consumption countries such as France etc. Not to be outdone - the Coral Calcium gang also use longevity of the people of Okinawa as their basis for promoting their product!

References on Iodine are contained in "Breast Cancer and Iodine".

The current dogma for processed soy and against animal foods has very little to do with health and more to do with commercialization of more profitable products.

The very diseases attributed to processed milk in fact were cured with raw milk if only one should read some history. I plan to post some of this in due course....

The bottom line is processing for profit has destroyed our food! And modern Soy use is right up there...

See:

Soy No Health Panacea but a Risk - Does Not Prevent Cancer Etc.

Stale Food vs Fresh Food - a banned book!

Chris
----------------

At 11:16 PM 06/07/2005, Jonathan Campbell wrote:

Chris,

The Weston Price Foundation has put together a nice collection of studies indicating that soy is a risk - for cancer, thyroid problems, infantile problems, etc. etc. etc.

The problem is that anyone, given the time, could put together an equivalently large collection of studies that indicated that soy products are anti-carcinogenic, good for health of people of all ages and gender, etc.

I don't have the time to do this, but let me provide pointers to just a few.

1. Consider the 1st study I've cited (from MedLine) following this message, which concludes: "Our results indicate a reduced risk of prostate cancer associated with consumption of soy foods and isoflavones. These findings should be confirmed in longitudinal follow-up studies in populations with varying risk of prostate cancer."

1. Althealth, an alternative health website in the UK, recommends high doses of genistein as a cancer protective diet, citing various studies.

2. Genistein is a tyrosine kinase inhibitor that stops the effects of metalloproteases (see 2nd study cited below from MedLine). Metalloproteases are the primary biochemicals used by cancer tissues to spread. Rath et al have shown (see the book "Cancer" by Matthias Rath, downloadable from his website) that metalloprotease inhibitors stop metastases and cancer growth. There are numerous case studies using a fermented soy concentrate (Haelan 941) that showed regression of various cancers, anti-cancer effects that are attributed to isoflavones.

www.cancer-disarmed.com/downloads/XFile%2011.pdf

3. Admittedly promoted on a soy manufacturer's website, here is a link to a presentation of a number of studies from China that are quite positive about soy, where it has been eaten by various sub-populations for about 2000 years as the primary source of protein.

www.vitasoy.com/en/summaries.html

4. Last, but not least, I will rely on John Robbins to provide, in the piece directly below, some answers to what John calls Kaayla's "diatribe" against soy. This was published as a response to an article by Kaayla in Mothering Magazine in the May/June 2004 issue. In passing John also cites just a few of the reasons that cow's milk - whether it is raw or processed - is not an appropriate food for human consumption. Ever. I could go on indefinitely about this last point, but a google search on the dangers of cow's milk would provide sufficient information for anyone. Just type "cow's milk hazards" to google.

Regards
Jonathan
****************************
John Robbins article, from www.foodrevolution.org/mothering.htm
****************************
May, 2004
To the editor of Mothering Magazine:
I've been a devoted fan of Mothering, and read every issue for more than fifteen years. On many occasions I've given subscriptions as gifts to new mothers and families. I've always understood why Mothering readers have so much respect for the magazine, and place so much trust in it.
But the article you printed warning against soy products betrays that trust. Actually, it wasn't an article, it was a diatribe. Under the guise of warning people, and pretending to be a voice of caution, it spreads fears that are unwarranted, exaggerated, and fictitious. Young mothers don't have the time to investigate the credibility and balance of the articles you print. They trust you to do that for them. In this case, you failed them big time.
I have no association to the soy industry, but I do have a strong dedication to people having accurate information about foods. It is difficult in a short letter to respond to seven pages of biased material, particularly when each page is crowded with half-truths, statements taken out of context, and conclusions drawn inappropriately from data.
The article's author, Kaayla Daniel, repeatedly says that people of China, Japan and other countries in Asia eat very little soy, so there is no historical precedent for eating the amounts being recommended by people like Dr. Andrew Weil and Dr. Christiane Northrup. This is a misleading half truth. It is true that in parts of Asia, most notably China, soy consumption has been low. But Asia is a very large area with several billion people.
What's important is not the average soy consumption for the whole of Asia, but the soy consumption in those parts of Asia which demonstrate the highest levels of human health. And there is no question about where that is. The elder population of Okinawa (a prefecture of Japan) have the best health and greatest longevity on the planet.
This is important because the highest soy consumption in the world is in Okinawa. Many North Americans know of Okinawa only for being the site of one of the longest and bloodiest battles of World War II, and for now housing U.S. military bases. But the people of Okinawa have repeatedly been shown to be the healthiest and longest-lived people in the world. This has been demonstrated conclusively by the renowned Okinawa Centenarian Study, a 25-year study sponsored by the Japanese Ministry of Health.
How much soy have the elder Okinawans eaten throughout their lives? The Okinawa Centenarian Study included an extremely thorough analysis of food consumption in the prefecture. The principle investigators and authors of the study (Makoto Suzuki, M.D., Bradley J. Willcox, M.D., and D. Craig Willcox, Ph.D.) state: "Okinawan elders eat an average of two servings of flavonoid-rich soy products per day.
This is about 20 times more than the amount of soy Kaayla Daniel claims "Asians really eat. When she says "there is no historical precedent for eating the large amounts of soy food now being consumed, she is incorrect. Soy makes up twelve percent of the diet of Okinawan elders.
The authors of the Okinawan Centenarian Study analyzed the diet and health profiles of Okinawan elders and compared them to other elder populations throughout the world. They conclude that high soy consumption is one of the main reasons that Okinawans are at extremely low risk for hormonedependent cancers, including cancers of the breast, prostate, ovaries, and colon. Compared to North Americans, they have a staggering 80 percent less breast cancer and prostate cancer, and less than half the ovarian cancer and colon cancer.

This enormously reduced cancer risk arises in part, the study's authors say, from the Okinawans large consumption of isoflavones from soy. This is an important finding. The lowest cancer rates in the industrialized world are found in the Okinawans who consume the most soy.
Other studies have confirmed the link between soy consumption and reduced cancer risk. The Japan Public Health Center Study found the lowest breast cancer rates in those prefectures where women ate the most soy products. And a recent study published in the British medical journal Lancet showed that women who ate the most flavonoids (mostly isoflavones from soy products) had a substantially lower risk for breast cancer than those who had lower flavonoid intake.
The reason the ardently pro-pharmaceutical FDA wound up affirming that soybeans are a food that can prevent and even help cure disease was not, as Kaayla Daniel says, because the agency is in bed with the soy industry, but because the evidence was so convincing. The reason the FDA now allows food manufacturers to talk about the benefits of heart-healthy soy in their products is because the substantiating data are overwhelming.
Indeed, the authors of the 25-year Okinawa Centenarian Study state that high soy consumption in Okinawa is one of the primary reasons elder Okinawans have 80 percent fewer heart attacks than North Americans do. Their high soy consumption is also why, if Okinawans do suffer a heart attack, they are more than twice as likely to survive.
These are staggering numbers. The study's authors state that if North Americans lived more like the elder Okinawans, and ate the amount of soy they do, we "would have to close 80 percent of the coronary care units and one-third of the cancer wards in the United States, and a lot of nursing homes would also be out of business. By 1990, Okinawan life expectancy figures had even surpassed the absolute limits of population life expectancy assumed by the Japan Population Research Institute. Limits had to be revised upwards simply to account for the phenomenal longevity of the Okinawans.
It is not an accident that in Okinawa, home to the highest soy consumption in the world, heart disease is minimal, breast cancer is so rare that screening mammography is not needed, and most aging men have never heard of prostate cancer. The three leading killers in the West coronary heart disease, stroke and cancer occur in Okinawans with the lowest frequency in the world.
There's also the fact that elder Okinawans have much stronger bones than we do, and less than half the hip fractures that we do. The authors of the Okinawa Centenarian Study attribute the increased bone strength and health in Okinawa to soy consumption. Many other studies confirm the connection between increased soy consumption and reduced osteoporosis.
I am very sorry that Mothering printed the article by Kaayla Daniels because it is so full of bias and fallacies. Its authoritative tone may sway some people to unnecessarily avoid soy, and that would be a shame. For most people, consumption of the levels of whole soy foods recommended by authors like Dr. Andrew Weil and Dr. Christiane Northrup, which correspond to the levels eaten by the Okinawans, are not only safe, but tremendously helpful to disease prevention and the creation of vibrant and resilient wellness. Of course if you are allergic to any food, then you shouldn't eat it. But dairy products, for which soy products are often substituted, are more likely to produce allergic reactions than soy. And by the way
Cow's milk provides more than nine times as much saturated fat as soy beverages, so is far more likely to contribute to heart disease.
Soy beverages provide more than 10 times as much essential fatty acids as cow's milk, and so provide a healthier quality of fat.
Soy beverages are cholesterol-free, while cow's milk contains 34 mg of cholesterol per cup, which again means that cow's milk is far worse for your heart and cardiovascular system.
Soy beverages lower both total and LDL ("bad) cholesterol levels, while cow's milk raises both total and LDL cholesterol levels, providing yet more reasons soymilk is better for your health.
Soy beverages contain numerous protective phytochemicals that may protect against chronic diseases such as heart disease and osteoporosis. Cow's milk contains no phytochemicals.
Men who consume one to two servings of soymilk per day are 70 percent less likely to develop prostate cancer than men who don't.
I do not understand why Mothering would allow its pages to be used for such a misleading article. I hope that you allow more balanced voices substantial space in the future to undo the damage you've done. Mothering's readers expect and deserve sane and helpful articles, especially about subjects like nutrition. They don't need more fear mongering. We've got quite enough of that in our society today.
Readers who want further information about health and longevity in Okinawa can see the excellent book The Okinawa Program.
And readers who want to see a balanced response to many of the specific allegations made against soy can visit: www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm
John Robbins

Author, Diet For A New America, May All Be Fed, and The Food Revolution

**************************************************************

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2003 Jul;12(7):665-8. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Soy and isoflavone consumption in relation to prostate cancer risk in China.

Lee MM, Gomez SL, Chang JS, Wey M, Wang RT, Hsing AW.

Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, University of California at San Francisco, 94143-0560, USA. mmlee@itsa.ucsf.edu

This case-control study in China evaluated the effect of soy food consumption and isoflavones (genistein and daidzein) on the risk of prostate cancer. One hundred and thirty-three cases and 265 age- and residential community-matched controls between the ages of 50 and 89 years were interviewed in person between 1989 and 1992. Usual consumption of soy foods and isoflavones was assessed using a food frequency questionnaire developed in China and a nutrient database developed and validated in Asian-American populations. The age- and total calorie-adjusted odds ratio (OR) of prostate cancer risk comparing the highest tertile of tofu intake to the lowest tertile was 0.58 [95% confidence interval (CI), 0.35-0.96]. There were also statistically significant associations comparing the highest quartile of intake of soy foods (OR, 0.51; 95% CI, 0.28-0.95) and genistein (OR, 0.53; 95% CI, 0.29-0.97) with the lowest quartiles. There was also an indication of a reduced risk associated with intake of daidzein (OR, 0.56; 95% CI, 0.31-1.04 for the highest versus lowest quartile). Our results indicate a reduced risk of prostate cancer associated with consumption of soy foods and isoflavones. These findings should be confirmed in longitudinal follow-up studies in populations with varying risk of prostate cancer.

PMID: 12869409 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

FEBS Lett. 1996 Oct 28;396(1):103-7. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Tyrosine phosphorylation is crucial for growth signaling by tissue inhibitors of metalloproteinases (TIMP-1 and TIMP-2).

Yamashita K, Suzuki M, Iwata H, Koike T, Hamaguchi M, Shinagawa A, Noguchi T, Hayakawa T.

Department of Biochemistry, School of Dentistry, Aichi-Gakuin University, Nagoya, Japan.

[3H]Thymidine (TdR) incorporation by human osteosarcoma cell line MG-63 was significantly stimulated at as early as 3 h after the addition of either TIMP-1 or TIMP-2 alone. Maximum stimulation was attained at a concentration of either 20 ng/ml (0.71 nM) TIMP-1 or 1.0 ng/ml (46 pM) TIMP-2. Tyrosine kinase inhibitors such as genistein, erbstatin, and herbimycin A almost completely inhibited the [3H]TdR incorporation stimulated by either of the TIMPs. However, essentially no effect was observed with H-89, H-7, bisindolylmaleimide and K-252a. These inhibition studies suggest a crucial role for tyrosine kinase in the signal transduction of TIMPs. Phosphotyrosine-containing proteins were significantly elevated by the treatment with both TIMPs. We also found that either TIMP stimulated an increase in mitogen-activated protein (MAP) kinase activity, suggesting that MAP kinase plays a role in TIMP-dependent growth signaling.

PMID: 8906876 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Campbell (by way of Chris Gupta )
To: The Wholenutritionist ; Sally Fallon
Cc: Mike Adams ; work@cqs.com ; jm@mercola.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: Just What The Doctor Ordered

Kaayla, Sally, can you please respond to the following....

Jonathan,

That's quite a sweeping accusation - all of Kaayla and Sally references are discredited? Wow!

Also they are not against soy per say only the highly processed and inordinate amounts that are being promoted. Soy is Ok if used as in traditional foods... see the link on Japan.

Did you review the FDA submissions?

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/04q0151/04q0151.htm

It's ludicrous to call the kettle black, are the soy claims not funded by industry?

As far as I know all the demonstrated negative effects regarding milk are from processed milk. Raw milk from traditional, grass fed wild cows, is what the Weston Price Foundation is promoting and not commercial milk . Not something that the Dairy Industry is interested in!

Regarding Japan see:

www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/japan.html

Chris
----------------------------

Chris,

Virtually all of Kaayla's claims about soy have been discredited. Sally Fallon works (at least in part) for the dairy industry, and the Weston Price Foundation promotes cow's milk and milk products. Where oh where in anything that Kaayla (or Sally Fallon) writes are the facts that cow's milk is intended to be a vehicle for bovine hormones such as IGF-1 for calves (a known prostate and breast cancer promoter in humans), and that the casein in cow's milk is thought by some researchers to be the primary instigator of the autoimmune reaction that is correlated with Type I diabetes, childhood asthma, etc.

There are areas of China and Japan where the primary foods eaten are made from soy, and have for more than a thousand years. Where is it written that the adults and children of these regions are in any way harmed by this? Answer: nowhere, because they are not.

Soy isoflavones are, in fact, anti-carcinogenic. Genistein and diadzen are protease inhibitors, that is, they neutralize the metalloproteases produced by cancer cells that enable the cancer to spread. They thus interfere with cancer growth and metastasis.

See the Berkeley Wellness Letter. Now you can't always trust what doctors say, but these docs seem to be telling it like it is...and they likely have no investments in soy.

Regarding hair loss, Kaayla might be interested in this article that makes the claim (with scientific research to back it up) that soy stops hair loss.

Jonathan

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Gupta
To: Recipient list suppressed
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:02 AM
Subject: Just What The Doctor Ordered

HELP DEFEAT PROPOSED SOY PROTEIN-PREVENTS-CANCER HEALTH CLAIM

Legal Action On Medical Problems Caused By Soy - Dioxin

posted by Chris Gupta on Sunday July 10 2005
updated on Wednesday October 26 2005

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Readers' Comments

I am so tired of all these controversies about soy and other food. Years ago when I became macrobiotic dairy products were the villians, they caused mucus, they caused cancer-Now that I can no longer tolerate dairy from being away from it for so many years, soy is the villian. It seems there are people with so much energy wrapped up in investigating the negative impacts of food-nothing is safe anymore--

Posted by: tina rhode on June 25, 2007 06:37 PM


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